The Dick Fowler Coupe - The Oldest Barris Custom Car Was Found At A Garage Sale?

Ride along as Jason  OldeCarrGuy  Carr and John CustomCarNerd Meyer talk about John's interview with Kurt McCormick. Kurt is the go-to for all things Barris history. John sat down to talk with Kurt on a rainy day during the 2023 Custom Car Revival in Indianapolis, Indiana. Kurt debuted the Dick Fowler 1938 Ford Coupe. This is the earliest known surviving Barris custom car. This car drew crowds!!

Speed over to our friends at  @Racing_Junk

 Visit the AMD Garage ~ Your one stop source for high quality body panels

For all things Get Out N Drive head on over to https://www.getoutndrive.com

Be sure to follow GOND on social media!
GOND Website
IG
Twitter
FB
YouTube



Recording Engineer, Paul Meyer


Subscribe to the Str8SixFan YouTube Channel



#classiccars #automotive #customcar #KustomCar #KustomKurt #KurtMcCormick #Barris #George Barris #BarrisCustom #DickFowlerCoupe #1938Ford #GetOutNDrive #Podcast #trucks #FordCoupe #CCR #CustomCarRevival #KevinAnderson #CCRIndy #CCR2024 #CCR2023

#tradeschool
#carengines
#WhatDrivesYOUth
#GetOutNDriveFAST

Speed over to our friends at RacingJunk.com

Join our fb group to share pics of how you Get Out N Drive


Follow Jason on IG
IG @oldecarrguy
Follow Jason on fb
fb @oldecarrguy
Subscribe To the Olde Carr Guy YouTube Channel

Follow John on IG
IG @customcarnerd
Friend John on fb

Recording Engineer, Paul Meyer

Sign Up and Learn more about National Get Out N Drive Day.


Subscribe to the Str8SixFan YouTube Channel.


Music Credit:
Licensor's Author Username:
LoopsLab
Licensee:
Get Out N Drive Podcast
Item Title:
The Rockabilly
Item URL:
https://audiojungle.net/item/the-rockabilly/25802696
Item ID:
25802696
Purchase Date:
2022-09-07 22:37:20 UTC

Transcript

Transcript 

Announcer 

You're listening to the get out N drive podcast with John custom car Nerd Meyer and Jason old car guy car. We'll be bringing you gear, heads, everything you never wanted to know about cars and why they should be on the road and not in your garage. Are you ready to get out and drive? 

Jason 

This episode is going to be a little different as you get out N drive to car shows and cruise Ins this summer, we're going to bring you all the best interviews that we did a while back while we were at car shows in 2023. John, why don't you give us an introduction to the first interview? 

John 

well in 2023, my wife Joanne and I made a trip to the custom car revival in Indianapolis. It is other than KKOA, it is the spot for. True. I would probably say 64 and earlier custom cars. Everything you're going to see there is a custom vehicle and they're very, very strict about their show. 

Jason 

Nice. I wish I could have made it. And you know, it's one thing that I will be on my bucket list to make sure we check. Out in the future, for sure. 

John 

Oh, definitely. And what was cool is we made the trip with our friends Kurt and Amy McCormack with a very special car in tow. For those of you who don't know, Kurt is the absolute go-to when you ask anybody about George Barris, or Barris Brothers Sam and George. History. He is an avid collector of everything. Baris and I can say everything. Barris will put a line in the sand at pre-Batmobile. Everything Barris I mean he has everything. Pictures and handwritings and parking tickets and all sorts of things that you never, ever, ever thought anyone would want to keep. Kurt has in a book about and he keeps very detailed log about the history and customizing of every one of his cars. 

Jason 

So let's get into the interview. 

John 

Well, very good. We came out. Custom Power Revival 2023. We made it. No troubles, no craziness, no nothing. We're stuck here because it's raining. I don't feel like driving home in the rain. 

Kurt McCormick 

Right, I understand. 

John 

That sounds pretty silly. So we're here at an empty hotel hanging out. 

Kurt McCormick 

We do have the place to ourselves, which is. 

John 

It's very convenient and very quiet. I see the tents and everything are still set up outside, so we saw a ton of cool stuff yesterday. What? I know you didn't get to walk around a lot. I know there was a lot of people that you saw and things. What? You see any cars that. Drive by that stuck out. 

Kurt McCormick 

Ohh yeah, a lot of stuff went by that. I was able to see. 

John 

Yeah. 

Kurt McCormick 

There was a Lincoln Zephyr convertible. He caught my eye. I'm told that it was a big award winner here last year. I didn't know that I would hear, but it was a smoke, Gray and charcoal and this 2 tone convertible. 

John 

Oh, wow. OK, OK. Low chopped. It was magnificent. Yeah, like a yellow Beltline pinstripe on it, I think. Or orange or something. Cheese whiz color. Yeah, that was a neat car. Paint was phenomenal on that car. Had a profile of absolutely perfect. 

Speaker 

That's. 

Kurt McCormick 

A good thing, yes. Yes. 

John 

Well, I know and you know, but maybe they don't. Well, what did you bring this? 

Kurt McCormick 

Year we brought a 1938 Ford Coupe. It's a real early various custom that was built in 1946 when the various brothers were just getting started. It just opened their shop. 

John 

OK. 

Kurt McCormick 

And it was kind of amateur hour, you know. And then they were still getting the lay of the land and learning their trade. But they built this car for a man named **** Fowler. 

John 

Sure, sure, sure. 

Kurt McCormick 

The Barris brothers chopped it, put in a 41 Packer grill, seal beam conversions and lowered. 

John 

It. 

Kurt McCormick 

Soak and license plate in the back to teardrop. Tail lights and general de chroming you know. 

Speaker 

OK. 

Kurt McCormick 

And that was about it. There's no evidence that it never had a finished interior in. It. But the outsides are pretty good, and it is kind of a scarce car and that there is very little documentation from the early days, there's only four pictures of it. 

John 

From the 40s. Wow, there's never been any real color pictures of the car, ever. 

Kurt McCormick 

No, never and. Well, it's like I said 4 pictures, two of them, the car was black and two of them the car was white primer and all the pictures were taken outside of the Barris shop and that's pretty much all we know as far as photographic evidence is concerned and kind of disappears. For 30 years and it shows up many years later, like in the late 70s or up into the 80s somewhere. 

John 

It is. 

Kurt McCormick 

It showed up at a yard sale, a garage sale. 

John 

A garage sale? Wouldn't you love to trip over something you trip over with various car, much less the earliest. As we know Garry's car, you trip over to garage sale. The garage sales I got. You don't have any of that.

Kurt McCormick 

I could have saved boatload. But the guy that did find it. Didn't have the cash to buy it at the time, but two years later. His. Parents are out yard sailing again and they went to the same piece of property, the car was still there. So his parents bought it. And they drove it home. Well, turns out that this guy that tried to buy it in the 1st place couldn't afford it. Is Axel was already, and he's very much involved with the Grand National Roadster show. And so he, he and his friend Kevin Sledge recognized the car, as you know, an early car had been pictured, the owner, two real old magazines. So they picked up. On it and. Figured out what it was. And Axel took it home, and sat on it for a while, and in 2011 there was A at the Grand National Roadster Show 1 building was dedicated. To early custom cars, traditional customs and Axel was in charge of that, so he. Freshened up this 38 Ford Coupe that he had and since it was a historically significant custom car, he brought it to this event and put it on display. It looked pretty good. 

John 

It wasn't running at the time though, right? No, because I thought they said they pushed it in. It was not a finished finished car. 

Kurt McCormick 

Yeah. Military or no drive line, it was just. Just sheet metal. 

John 

Yeah. 

Kurt McCormick 

But it showed pretty well and I like the look of. 

John 

Like you had cars there that year, right? 

Kurt McCormick 

I did. I had three of them in this show and that's how I happen to be there and see it after a year or two of batting it around, we finally got around to. It and. I bought it from him. That was the beginning of a 7 year restoration. 

John 

Yes. Do you have pictures of what it looked like? When Axel got it. 

Kurt McCormick 

There. Yeah, there's a few I've got. 

John 

Because I didn't know what color primer it was in, it was in Gray or how the length it was finished. 

Kurt McCormick 

It was. It was still in white primer after all these years. It still had that white primer. 

John 

Oh wow. So of all you would think that the car was left pretty much as the almost like the final picture. It was taken of what you said around 47. So you think the car did not progress at all. 

Kurt McCormick 

Yes. 

John 

Until he found it, the car was just stored, which you don't know with who. 

Kurt McCormick 

No, it was there was nothing changed. 

John 

On it, which is. 

Kurt McCormick 

A good thing because if it had fallen into the wrong hands, it might have wound. Up. A drag car. You know, it might might have all cut up and made into something unrecognizable. 

John 

Your Oh my. 

Kurt McCormick 

Enough. 

John 

I just opened up the side doors. We'll make it into a roundy round circle. That car. I know, that's what. What happens? That's what we talked to. A lot, lot. We lost a lot of 38 Fords. Very popular. 

Kurt McCormick 

Three further populist for stock cars because they were unattractive, all in stock form. So so people thought. 

Speaker 

Right. 

Kurt McCormick 

Anyhow. 

John 

So you so you've got the car in your hands and that's about what year you said around 2012, thirteen. 

Kurt McCormick 

About two years ago, OK, clearly got 1313. 

John 

And it got the start of the restoration. And I know during the restoration when it was stripped a lot of metal. Was replaced in the car, kind of. 

Kurt McCormick 

Talk us through that. OK. The car. When I bought it, brought it home. It was still in it's white primer from the roster show. It looked OK. Well, I I had the the chassis down on the car. I gave it to a friend of mine, Gary Finney. And he had it for a couple of years, maybe. And he did all the mechanicals, the chassis work, driveline, electrical suspension and everything. Rear End conversion did all the heavy lifting on the car and got the car where it would run. And drive. 

John 

OK. 

Kurt McCormick 

And then and what driveline? 

John 

I was in it at the time because I thought you had told me that it was set up for a specific engine when you had gotten it from axle. 

Kurt McCormick 

It was set up for Chevy. 

John 

OK. 

Kurt McCormick 

But there was no guideline in. Since it. Was set up for. That's what I went with 350 crate motor and A-350 Turbo and a nine inch Ford rear end with a parallel leaves. Put all in and. 

Speaker 

OK. 

Kurt McCormick 

And Gary Finney took care. Of that, and then I. Brought it from Gary Finney's house. Mechanically done, but the body was untouched and I then brought it coincidentally to your. 

John 

Shop that is true. 

Speaker 

No. 

Kurt McCormick 

And you, my guy, did some work on it, including stripping it to bare metal and showing us all the surprises that was underneath all that mud and paint. 

John 

Hmm. That that is true. 

Jason 

John, even though I couldn't be at custom car revival like in my mind, I can't imagine being in charge of this particular build. How terrifying was it to to have this? 

Speaker 

MHM. 

Jason 

In tow and be responsible for getting it to this place unscathed. 

John 

Well, it it's a big deal because it's a one-of-a-kind. Well, it's customized. It's a one-of-a-kind car. It is the oldest baris. Built car on the planet 1938 Ford Coupe and it is the Dick Fowler coup. Is the absolute the oldest car that has been found? There's probably going to be something else out there, but right now that's the oldest car found, that is, that was worked on by the Barris brothers, 

Jason

One-on-one.

John

One of one very Western Guard influenced because they were underneath Harry Westergard and learning a lot about him, the speedboat stance and skirts. Smooth hood sides the to the chop everything on the car is very, very elegant in my eyes. It needs to stay this way, but it is a pre-white-wall custom car, does not have white walls on it has black walls. It needs to stay that way. Being a pre-war build. 

Jason 

Well, I can't wait to. Hear more about it. So, let's listen then. 

John 

Now, now I know you said 1947 round about George and Sam. How old were they when they were working on this car? I'm not good at math, so I'm I'm I know 1820 ish. 

Kurt McCormick 

George. Yeah, I would say late teens, early 20s. Yeah, they would take a couple of years. 

John 

OK, OK. And that kind of sets the time frame for the quality of work that they're going to do? 

Kurt McCormick 

Yeah. George had opened a little shop and was just getting started. And shortly after he opened his doors, Sam came back from the service War Two in 1946 and. My car was built in 46 so. This has to be one of the very earliest cars, and there's a lot a lot of amateurish work on it that demonstrated that. But it's OK everybody has to start somewhere. So that was an interesting example of that. 

John 

Now, were they? Were they studying under Harry Westergard at the time, or that's a little bit later? 

Kurt McCormick 

They knew no. That was much earlier, actually, before. 

Speaker 

OK. 

Kurt McCormick 

War. 

John 

OK, because I'm I'm setting a time frame for the car because you say it's their first one and they have to learn from somebody. 

Kurt McCormick 

They. No, I don't think it. I don't know if it was their first car, but it was among the very the store. It's. It's certainly the earliest surviving example. 

John 

Larry Bird, OK. But they were studying under under Western Guard. 

Kurt McCormick 

They apprentice. They hung around Harry Westergaard shop and learned what they could. 

John 

OK. 

Kurt McCormick 

Before the war. So they were in it really early. Wow. And. 

John 

Because I saw one of the earliest cars of of Georges was his 36 roadster of of the things that I am I know about and that is something that running boards come off and skirts went all on and a little bit of an altitude adjustment, you know and. 

Kurt McCormick 

Yes. The the very earliest cars that he did and including the one that 36 that he owned. All looked like they could have been done by Harry Westergard. The influence was so strong, you know George was good at borrowing ideas from other people and applying them to his stuff. Sure. So my 38 is like that. The grill, the pumpers, the Sunking license plate, all these features. Could have just as easily been done by. 

John 

Extremely influenced by Harry. 

Kurt McCormick 

So anyway I. 

John 

So I've got the card disassembled and and and in in bare metal, and then we figured out what the game plan was going to be and ended up going to a Body Shop. Take us from there. 

Kurt McCormick 

Selling there for four years and got most of the work done. All the metal work was straightened out and everything was made functional. All the, all the rust and bad metals all replaced one man, one off did it all of that for 3 1/2 years. That's all we worked on. And he did a wonderful. 

John 

Job. Incredible. Metal man, he's he replaced the sail panels and tops of the drivers door and a lot of pieces. 

Kurt McCormick 

Bottoms were drove to the cat walk the bottom of the window, both like you said, with solar panels bottom of the deck wood. The panel between the tail lights between the back fenders that had to be replaced, and he did it. 

John 

A lot of. 

Speaker 

Right. 

John 

Because that car did not have and you're in on all of your cars that you restore, you put your little Curt McCormick touches on it because a customizer does what a customizer does. You're very good at putting your mark on the cars. What pieces did you add to this car that weren't? We're going to say true to the car, but part of the original package. What pieces did you decide are that are that are new. 

Kurt McCormick 

How are the original tenants? 

John 

To the car. 

Kurt McCormick 

OK, externally, the outside of the car, everything is as it should be. It's authentic, except the car was so plain when viewed from the side. 

Speaker 

MHM. 

Kurt McCormick 

They need a little something. I put 40. Foot side trim on it. Made a nice difference on the belt line. It turned out good. It looks like it belongs on the car. 

Speaker 

And. 

John 

And that's important part about customizing. Don't customize for the sake of change you add to the car and that trim on the side of the car will lengthen the car. 

Kurt McCormick 

That's right. 

John 

Visually, length in the car and it's shortened up. It doesn't go all the. Way up on the hood. 

Kurt McCormick 

That's right, yeah. 

John 

And that's a decision that you made. 

Kurt McCormick 

Mechanically, and as far as Truman and upholstery and details on the inside, that's all me. The car had not a hint of upholstery in it anywhere when I got it, so I have no idea if I've ever had any in it or if it did. There's no evidence. So I made my own. 

John 

Right. 

Kurt McCormick 

Choices about materials colors. Patterns and what got chromed and what got upholstered. You know. All the decisions to make concerning interior. 

John 

Sure. And it's wonderful that the car wasn't finished and it's iconic, but it's also a blank slate. 

Kurt McCormick 

For Kurt. Yeah. For that kind of, yeah. 

John 

For that part of it and and you get to make an iconic mark on the car. 

Kurt McCormick 

Show my choices concerning the interior. Were to use. Period colors and period parts, old car parts, nothing modern or new. Everything that's in there is from old cars. Which is important. 

John 

Kind of a pick an era and stick with it. Kind of almost almost draw a line in the sand and say I'm not going to have anything newer. As if the car was finished then you're not going to have anything newer than a time period. 

Kurt McCormick 

Yeah, well, late 40s and early 50s was my time period. So the colors and the patterns and the the materials and the carpet, everything the way it was done and the colors that were picked out were. All. True to that era. And I like a lot of Chrome and bright work on the inside of the car, and that was popular back then. Guys with Chrome, the inside window moldings and some other Chrome, the dashboards and other you know any metal hardware heater boxes. So I did all of that. Every piece of metal inside the car on the interior was crowned. The trim everything Poly stainless steel. 

John 

That is a lot of Chrome because you can sit behind the wheel and you can see that just like a diamond is so bright and wonderful. 

Kurt McCormick 

It is. It's pretty loud. But it's it really turned out to me and everybody seems. To like him. A lot, I. Love all that planning and the best thing is the guy that did the interior of the upholstery. His name is Jared Vanecek and he's the best upholstery man I already met. Life and he did an exquisite job, a concordance upholstery job. The cry couldn't be. Wow. Here he also postered Trump to match the interior just right. 

John 

And again, never ever ever finished prior. The trunk is beautiful. The inside of the trunk lid. The the finished panels. Everything on that car. The spirit. You know the tire cover. Everything is beautiful in the garden. 

Kurt McCormick 

Gross. Well, thank you. It it turned out great, but I owe all of that to to Jared works out of his home, one car at a time. 

John 

Fantastic work. 

Kurt McCormick 

I waited a year. For a spot to open up so I can get the trunk done? Yeah, just the trunk. So thanks to him. And also thanks to you. 

John 

Sure. 

Kurt McCormick 

You you did a great deal to help me finish the last details on the car. 

John 

We have the whole front end of the. Are we readjusted how the car fit and again like you said, customizer, you look at the side of it and the side profile is the key. 

Kurt McCormick 

Yeah. Stance is everything. So you? But I didn't do much, you know. You did almost all of it all week. 

John 

We got the together, we got the front of that car. Where that wheel well sits. Right inside, right on top of. The tire right where it. Should be. 

Kurt McCormick 

Yeah, you you rust proofed and undercoated all the fenders. You replace that door release cable and now it works so perfect. 

John 

Build a club box out of a trash can. Oh yeah, don't tell anyone. 

Kurt McCormick 

The the reproduction people you know, they make reproduction forward parts for any old Fort. If they don't make a glove box replacement, glove box or a 38 Ford, everybody else, you can get one. 

Speaker 

Right. 

Kurt McCormick 

But not for a 30. We went to a home supply store and found a plastic waste basket. About this high and inward perimeter, about about the the equator. Of this wastebasket. 

John 

Right. 

Kurt McCormick 

It's a rectangular shape and if you. Cut it down just to a certain point. That it just fit in there, so proving sticking from the back right. You drill four holes and you get this perfect glove box. It's completely enclosed. It's black in there and it looks great. Yeah. 

John 

It's a wonderful, wonderful thing that we made out of a trash. Can. 

Kurt McCormick 

Yeah, it's not a. So we got about a $6. Glove box and. It just feels good. We were very fortunate. 

John 

Right, right, right. So now the car's finished and it's obviously for the period it doesn't have white walls on it and for good intention for good reason. 

Kurt McCormick 

Sure, the the old pictures of the car show it with no white wall tires on. It was a black wall car, which is very typical for the era right after the war, white walls were almost impossible to get. Tires were hard to. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Kurt McCormick 

Get. 

John 

Right. 

Kurt McCormick 

So the car is black. It looks neat with black walls, so it's very authentic. It's true to the appearance of the car as it was. In. The 40s, so I'm good with it done likewise. Yes, they're authentic. Single bar flippers, which were very popular in the 40s as an aftermarket accessory. 

John 

And your and your front hub caps are real. 

Kurt McCormick 

And they were on this car. This is the type of CAP they used when the car was first. 

John 

And your wheel has a hint of the interior color. Just just a hint. 

Kurt McCormick 

Yeah, dark metallic green just showing around the trim ring from the outside of the. 

John 

Wheels and it's so dark that you have to run up and you go. Oh, wait, that's not right. That's green because you tossed around the idea of the foreign cars going to be black. You would talked about the. Car being. Green. 

Kurt McCormick 

Yeah. 

John 

It was, and it was in the works. You know, we. 

Kurt McCormick 

We definitely talked about it. We painted the rooms. Good. In in anticipation of painting the car, green and my wife has a little Toyota that has a very nice metallic green on it. So I painted the wheels that color and really liked it, but I talked to a guy after that, Jesse Lopez, who some of the custom. 

John 

OK. 

Speaker 

MHM. 

John 

Right. 

Kurt McCormick 

People will know. 

Speaker 

Wait. 

Kurt McCormick 

I was able to talk to him on the phone. He knew Dick Fowler and was. Familiar with the car? 

John 

Actually, around that circle of people at that time. So true first hand information. 

Kurt McCormick 

Yes. Yeah. And I asked him what color it was. He says it was black. So that's cinched it. My green wheels are still green and they look fine, which causes black, and that's the way it was and that's why it still is. 

John 

Yeah. The car turned out absolutely fantastic. I know it's a long road to go but. As you've done with a lot of the other cars that are in your collection, you've built something from nothing or next to nothing and anybody can use the term and quote it. Say, is this worth it? I I don't know, but I can tell you the car's finished. It is fantastic and you've saved another custom. 

Kurt McCormick 

Well, I don't regret it a bit. Sure, I'm loving how the car came out and the fact that it's such an early custom really appeals to me. I love the early. Cars. 

John 

Absolutely beautiful car. Even you've got an honor of of an award here at custom car revival. Ohh don't don't forget, don't forget you got 2. 

Kurt McCormick 

This. 

John 

One of them is not in your hands yet. 

Kurt McCormick 

In two words. Right, that's Gary minor. 

Speaker 

Ah. 

John 

This is a Garry's trophy. We're holding it right here. No, we're good, Gary. 

Kurt McCormick 

It's got send whatever it is, it's coming. In the mail. 

John 

Yep. 

Kurt McCormick 

And we got some sort of appreciation award from Kevin and the bunch just for participating in the hobby for a long time. 

John 

Well, it's wonderful that you can get the car finished and unbelievably early custom and have its debut. I mean, no one's ever seen this car before. Finished. 

Kurt McCormick 

No. Nobody saw it. 

John 

Right here at custom card Bible 2023. 

Kurt McCormick 

Would be more appropriate, and it was so well written. Man, I I felt like all this rolled in. Here and people. Gathered around the car and really, you know, very complimentary and kind in their remarks. 

Speaker 

Is it? 

Kurt McCormick 

And it it went on the whole weekend, I I had no idea. I had so many friends. 

John 

You were the superstar. That is. Sure that is sure. And you say it all the time. Jokingly, you're the caretaker for the car. You're the curator and caretaker for the car. The people come to see Kurt McCormick. People come to see the cars and it's amazing. It's amazing. So thank you very much for what you've done. 

Kurt McCormick 

It's great for you thinking you've given me over the years, the good friend. 

Speaker 

Yeah. Welcome. 

John 

Yes, Sir. Cool. 

Jason 

Guys, this is just the first part of John's conversation with Kurt McCormack. We'll be bringing you more with Kurt in the future episodes. 

John 

And we have interviews with many other people that are keeping the automotive, hobby and industry alive. That reminds me, starting July 1st, we'll be releasing all the details for National Get Out N Drive Day 2024. 

Jason 

So be sure to subscribe to the Get Out N Drive Podcast and YouTube channel to be the first to know when new episodes drop. 

John 

Visit getoutNdrive.com to follow us on all social media platforms. Pick up some, get out N drive merch and even more info you never wanted to know about cars. 

Jason 

Go to our Instagram page now and be a part of the conversation about this Episode. 

John 

Maybe you found a historically significant custom car to garage sale. If you did, you certainly want to hear about it. 

Announcer 

Connect with us on social media. Find us on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok. Follow us on Twitter @getoutndrivepod. 

Kurt McCormick 

What drives you?